I am curious...

are built in speakers on keyboards such as Yamaha PSR and Korg PA classified as monitors that give the "true flat sound" or are thy just basically the same as any generic Hi Fi Speakers to make the sound "good" ?

I expect a pair of monitors with accurate sound to cost more than any of these arrangers. Additionally, a room where it’s used should be acoustically accurate as well, which can cost even more. I doubt that built in speakers are accurate in any way, also, I think, an arranger itself is adjusted to sound well with its speakers.

As some professionals say, even if speaker is labeled as “monitor” it does not guarantee much, especially when it’s not very expensive.

Think of them as a TV soundbar or boom box, with manipulation they can be made to sound quite good, but are no substitute for a quality external speaker system if you are after accurate sound.
BTW: If you are setting up for recording it is better to use quality headphones to remove room & speaker box effects.

Bill

I totally agree.

Perfect description. The only minor exception I've heard is my Roland FP90 piamo. It is designed as a stand alone sub for a real console piano and does a great job. With its mic input I could go do a restaurant job with notjing else PA wise. I can't imagine doing that with an Arranger.

I tend to disagree, new brands offer great monitors near perfect for recording way under €1000 a piece...

Just look for brands like ADAM and CEB. I think they offer a 7” monitor set of highest quallity at €1200 for both..

Thats still way cheeper then a Genos..

I guess it depends on the quality of the keyboard/speakers. I have heard that keyboard speakers, such as my 1000, have a tri amped system, so the sound is much more detailed than regular monitor speakers.

That said, there is the Multimedia speakers that propose a tri amped feature.

I'm retired and currently use mostly headphones, and the sound is fantastic. With headphones off, and utilizing onboard speakers, the sound is flat and often "tinny".

Zuki, not sure what a "tri-amped" speaker system feature is, could you give an example?
Thanks

Larry, not an audiophile guy here, but there's a mid range speaker in keyboard speakers, from what I've been told, similar to headphones.


"Bi-amping" is the use of two channels of amplification to power each loudspeaker within an audio system. "Tri-amping" is the practice of connecting three channels of amplification to a loudspeaker unit: one to power the bass driver (woofer), one to power the mid-range and the third to power the treble driver (tweeter). The terms derive from the prefix bi- meaning 'two', tri- meaning 'three', and amp the abbreviation for "amplifier".

Symmetrical MTM design for superior imaging and precision
iLoud MTM uses a midrange-tweeter-midrange symmetrical design, with a pair of 3.5” high performance woofers and one 1” high definition, back-chamber loaded tweeter, which provides ultra precise, defined, point source sound that can’t be achieved by traditional 2-way systems at close distances. This means an even more natural, life-like sound, where the speakers “disappear” and you can focus on the music. It also minimizes the ear fatigue caused by traditional 2- or 3-way designs, where different frequencies arrive at your ear at different times. So you can mix longer, with less effort.

Thanks for your excellent explanation zuki,

The iLoud has rave reviews as does the PreSonus Eris E66

Either of these would certainly do the job. A little pricey at $300 each. Anyone have recommendations for the more budget minded consumer?

Any near field monitor will be fine (There is a boatload out there) so you don’t need to go for something unique to get great imaging and control close up.
Best to look in pro music shops as you will find plenty to choose from at a multiple of price points.
Korg PA1000 is like most arranger keyboards, with just a stereo 2 channel amp built in. (No bi or Tri-amping)

Bill

Thanks Bill. Come to think of it, the 1000 speakers don't have that sweet spot. I know I've had a tri amped boards before, maybe the 800? or PSR3O00 was really sweet too.

I really enjoyed the Adam 7 monitors - really the only ones that blew me away. I don't use monitors, prefer my Senn cans. But would like to check out iLoud too

For me the inbuilt keyboard speakers just let one know that the keyboards working...none of them are worth listening to and just don't do the keyboard justice.

A good pair of monitor headphones or powered monitor speakers will enable you to hear the keyboard as it should be heard and worth the money outlay.

I sweat like a pig in headphones! If I have to play silently for practice I use Sony earbuds of an unknown quality.

I have a Korg Pa800, and it sounds great to my ears. The Korg Pa1X had a great and powerful sound as well, but at 50 lbs what an unwieldy beast! Never opened it up or looked into the specs for the internal amp(s).

The TRS-MS05 speakers sold as a companion to the Tyros 5 are lousy; I don't recommend them. When I got my BK-9 I invested in a Roland CM-110 2.1 monitor setup. This system is rated for 50 watts. I think the original MSRP was around $700, so not high-end at all. But they sound much better than the TRS-MS05.

I don't play pro gigs and I have no experience EQ-ing for a room. But when I play a MIDI on the BK-9 it sounds great to me!

Interesting. The pianos sound better through board keyboard speakers than anything else (except phones). When I play my 1000 acoustic pianos through the keyboard speakers, it's terrific. When I try to replicate that through a PA - awful. Keyboard speakers have a better crossover or something that adds middle to patches, particularly pianos. But we all hear what we here, no biggie

I have also made the experience when occasionally playing on keyboards with onboard speakers that these speakers are optimized for the sounds of the keyboard, and tend to have a focus on mid frequencies.
I once had to play on a very cheap keyboard of the 1990s, and we thought we could improve its sound by connecting a Bose WaveRadio. But instead, the cheapness of the sound came out, and highs and lows were too much boosted, whereas with the mid-focused speakers of the keyboard still made it sound bearable.

Similar with the Yamaha DGX 630 piano, which we had in church. It has a very simple piano sample, only one layer, dynamics done artificially with filters. With the onboard speakers it sounded fine, but with JBL Control 2 PS active speakers it always sounded cheap.

Bottom line with built in speakers... it all depends on how loud you want to get. Most speakers can be EQ’d decently flat at very low volumes except for the low end (size matters, ladies!), but as volume rises it all falls apart.

And unfortunately for performers, that volume is generally lower than you need for anything but the most unobtrusive, background music gigs you can imagine..!

Sure, for things like stage pianos, which are only ever going to make one sound, and a sound that doesn’t exactly boom at the bottom, built-ins can do all right, but an arranger isn’t just the piano... it’s the entire band or orchestra! It’s the kick drum, the bass player, the double bass player or the synth bass.

But... unless you are mixing reference stuff or mastering, you can chase your tail until you go broke shooting for ‘flat’. Few people have ever even heard a really flat system, and even fewer actually liked it! It’s not designed to flatter music, it’s designed to expose flaws. Not what you want most of the time!

Just get any reasonably priced, well regarded hifi system at home, or a decent pro PA for gigs and leave the worrying about ‘flat’ to studio engineers 😎

I get it with onboard speakers alone,but what about leaving the onboard speakers on,as a monitor,while running your main sound to a pa? I know some players do,but I want to hear what is coming out of my main speakers,and the kb speakers interfere. An exception would be in a large venue with a sound man,of coarse,where you need to hear yourself.

Bernie

Bernie, I never use on-board speakers on a job. I want to hear what they hear. I made sure I placed the speakers so I could hear them.
(on the side)

John C.

The problem with blending the on-boards in with the PA is that you can sometimes get some weird phase things going, or emphasize certain mid-range frequencies which tends to lead you to adjust your mix for what YOU are hearing, not the audience.

But yes, it can work in a pinch if you cannot set up the PA behind enough, you just have to be super aware that you aren’t hearing what they are. And, like I said earlier, they are very unlinear... if you turn them up, you aren’t turning everything up equally, just one more thing to have to compensate for.

I’ve been helping a neighbor with her keyboard.

It’s a Casio CTX 5000. The quality of sound is very good I thought...especially for a less expensive keyboard

I am a home player, I have a Yamaha Sx900, and a Bose compact 1. I feel the Bose compact is too much for my studio room, yet I want a quality sound. Any ideas will be appreciated.

The smaller Bose at $599 each is a bit too much.
John C.

Pop to your local pro music store as there are plenty of entry level studio monitors that will blow away the speakers that come with keyboards. (If you can’t get to a store then there are plenty of reviews on YouTube, but if at all possible listen to them live in a store yourself)

Bill